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The result of the debate was rename
We typically use the simple direction in combination with the regions of Africa and Asia in the names of stub categories, Southern Africa exempted for obvious reasons. I don't care which is used as long as we're consistent, but switching the relevant categories to use the -ern forms will require renaming more cats. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Given that the appropriate article is at West Africa, I'd go for that one. Grutness...wha? 05:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
• I'd favour going with the UN geoscheme sub-regions, for definitional clarity. i.e.:
  • Northern Africa
  • Western Africa
  • Middle Africa
  • Eastern Africa
  • Southern Africa
• We started discussing switching over to such a scheme a while ago, but seemed to run out of steam. Alai 03:33, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

It was never implemented properly. We have very little material about North Africa, so I'm not sure if this region is even above 60 at all and Southern Africa is already in use for the material relating to the RSA. But yes, we should switch to the current UN regions, for both this material and the -geo stubs. The -geos shouldn't pose much of a problem since we now have -geo templates for almost all African nations. Valentinian ^{T / C} 09:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

And Support for this proposal. Valentinian ^{T / C} 22:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename to KamenRider-stub
Unproposed, only four stubs. Might be useful, but if so the template is in strong need of renaming. This isn't a type of rider stub - we don't have a rider stub for it to be a type of. Also, there's no such thing as Kamen rider - it's Kamen Rider, with a capital R, so it would need to be at {{KamenRider-stub}} if kept. Either rename, if it can be shown to be useful, or delete. Grutness...wha? 06:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll rename it. Simple as that. I'm still in the process of populating it.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, I don't see why I need to go through the web of red tape and propose this stub, when I had the need for it now.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

If you'd proposed it, the mistake in the name would have been pointed out before it was made, saving both you and us work. QED. Grutness...wha? 06:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

The name's fixed now. It's now at {{Kamen-Rider-stub}} while I use {{kamen-rider-stub}} as a redirect.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:39, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE stop confusing the issue! Okay - I now change the initial nomination, since you've moved the template from one incorrect name to another incorrect name:

• Delete the {{Kamen-rider-stub}} redirect
• Either rename or delete {{Kamen-Rider-stub}} - it should, as pointed out be at {{KamenRider-stub}} - and the category, keeping only if they can be shown to reach threshold.

Next time, wait before adding further confusion. Moving the template from one incorrect name to another incorrect name just creates even more work! Grutness...wha? 06:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

• Fine—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 06:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • It's now at {{KamenRider-stub}}—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
• Do something. Kamen Rider is way too specific. How about {{toku-stub}}? hbdragon88 07:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I had a need for this one earlier today in creating around 3 or so stub articles for Kamen Riders. Out of the handful of other articles in Category:Tokusatsu, I don't think many are stubs. And if they are, they're covered by {{japan-tv-stub}}—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 07:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Upmerge That same argument could be used for Kamen Rider stub articles. The few that Wikipedia has are adequately covered by {{Japan-tv-stub}} (Wikipedia's otaku generally do a good job of making articles on such subjects more than stubs.) I could possibly see a use for a {{tokusatsu-stub}} but not such an overly specific one. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• I really don't care anymore. Stub proposal has got to be one of the more asinine processes I've ever had to deal with on Wikipedia.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 02:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
  • But you've never dealt with the stub proposal process! Which is, pof course, the trouble, and the reason for the current mess - everything would have been sorted out correctly the first time if this had been proposed. We wouldn't have you naming, renaming, deleting, and generally messing around with templates while a deletion process was in progress. Anything which seems asinine about the current mess could very well have been avoided if things had been debated properly in the first place. Grutness...wha? 02:40, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete
Unproposed, incorrectly named, and redundant duplicate of long-extant {{CAsia-stub}}. Delete. Grutness...wha? 06:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Speedied with creator's approval. Grutness...wha? 07:10, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep

moved from WP:TFD. Comment: if this is nominated, the equivalent category should be, too Grutness...wha? 21:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The template was created with the fair use image Image:SEPTA.png included, which I recently removed as per WP:RFUI. No other transit authority has their own template for stubs (to my knowledge), and each tagged article (see Category:SEPTA stubs) should be categorized for its type of service (train, tram, bus, etc.) and not by its transit authority. The currently tagged articles should be retagged with {{metro-stub}}, {{tram-stub}}, etc. Crashintome4196 02:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep - The stub type is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types. - Neier 02:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• There's a template:NYCT-stub (New York City transportation) and a template:London-tube-stub; what's the problem with sorting by system? Maybe it should be redefined to include other public transit like the PATCO Speedline, but I don't see the problem. --NE2 03:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• Speedy keep with 200 articles currently sorted into this stub type, there is sufficient need for this template. Stub type deletions should be handled by WP:WSS. Slambo (Speak) 11:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Well used stub. --evrik ^(talk) 16:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Well used stub, and yes, fourteen other transit authorities have their own stubs, if the subcats of Cat:Rapid transit stubs is any guide. Grutness...wha? 21:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep. Editors familiar with and looking to edit SEPTA articles are often not going to be interested in other cities' transit systems; {{metro-stub}} et al. would be of little to no use. There's plenty of utility in having a transit-system-specific stub like this, and it is indeed very well-used. Krimpet (talk/review) 05:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
• Keep Lots of transclusions, as everyone here have said. This stub type is heavily used on SEPTA Regional Rail stations and such.  V60 ^{干什么？ · VDemolitions} 21:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete
A follow-up from previous tussles, User:Privacy (contribs) recently created [1] the above category without consultation, and to push for the creation of an entire hierachy of perm cats under the "Mainland China" brandname.--Huaiwei 07:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Update: In a matter of days since the nomination above, User:Privacy has single-handedly created nearly 20 "Mainland China"-related perm cats, many of which are related to the tussle over stub templates. Six of these are company cats under the Category:Companies of mainland China category, the later of which is also User:Privacy's creation.--Huaiwei 01:41, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment Cat:Mainland China geography stubs is already up for deletion since March 2 and while it hopefully will be closed soon, it hasn't yet. However, looking closer at the nomination, it's clear that Huaiwei meant to nominate Cat:Mainland China company stubs which Privacy created out of process to push his POV. So I'm putting the above comments in a sandy brown box, since they aren't really relevant to the intended nomination. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Delete as an attempt to change the category of a stub type without going through SFD. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep. In response to Caerwine's comment above, setting up the category is not a POV issue. Given the current structure of the People's Republic not having a stub category for companies of the Mainland is itself a problem. - Privacy 13:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment The whole question of whether there should be Mainland China categories is one big mess of internal Wikipolitics. Your out of process attempt to change the category name reeks of POV and furthermore leads to having a template feed into a mismatched category. China is not the same as Mainland China and so no stub template that uses the China- prefix should feed into a stub category restricted to Mainland China. Any such stub category should have the corresponding template begin with MainlandChina-. Leaving aside the question of whether or not we should have Cat:Mainland China company stubs, the simple fact is that we have no {{MainlandChina-company-stub}} and therefore this stub category has no template feeding into it. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Do not forget that "China" is very often used in place of "Mainland China", for example, by the press. There is nothing wrong to name the template as simple as possible, like what has been done with -structure- and -geography-. Most importantly, Template:China-company-stub has always been applied only to companies from the Chinese mainland. - Privacy 10:45, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
      • If you want to change Wikipedia's policy that "China" is to be used only in an inclusive sense that includes Taiwan this project is not the place to make that change. Until such time as that policy be changed, I'm going to support it. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
        • You have misunderstood everything. Category: Chinese company stubs has always been holding only stubs on Mainland Chinese companies. "China" should not, however, be used in place of "Mainland China".
        • I don't have much opinion regarding the title of the template. It doesn't appear to readers who don't edit; for editors it is much easier to remember. Template: China-geog-stub and Template: China-struct-stub both fed into Category: Mainland China geography/building and structure stubs. - Privacy 09:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete delete delete 1000 times delete. And can we have a discussion without all the puppets this time? SchmuckyTheCat 00:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per Privacy. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 19:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment ChoChoPK was prompted by Privacy to offer his brief comment. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per above. Useful and necessary category with a neutral name. Michael G. Davis 20:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Michael G. Davis is a suspected lackey, symphathiser or even sockpuppet of User:Instantnood, of which Privacy is also suspected to be in similar relation with.--Huaiwei 11:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete
Unproposed, unused, redundant with other stub types, questionable use of an adjectival form, and it links into the highly inappropriate Cat:Alcohol stubs. At the very least this should be renamed to something like Narcotic-drug-stub and upmerged into something more appropriate (such as Cat:Psychoactive drug stubs), but, given that it is unused and there's no guarantee of many stubs anyway, perhaps deletion might be a better option. Grutness...wha? 03:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete. Completely redundant with the more aptly named, well-used {{Psychoactive-stub}}. Krimpet (talk/review) 06:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete General Eisenhower (talk • contribs) 22:52, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete
Tackling a few from the top of Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_type_sizes today... this one is unproposed, badly named (both the template with its capital S and the category which should be at Cat:Entourage (TV series) stubs. Unused, and even if every articles in Cat:Entourage (TV series) were a stub it still wouldn't get within 15 of threshold. Entirely unnecessary. Delete. Grutness...wha? 23:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete
ISTR this one got modified after discovery or here at SFD... either way, this is emoty and is not connected by a template. As such, it's possibly speediable. Grutness...wha? 23:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Delete ASAP. Valentinian ^{T / C} 18:45, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete
Unproposed and curiously named. According to the template it's for articles relating to the future, not for future articles (all viable stubs should be future articles in the long run). Unused, too. Theoretically, a rescoped/renamed stub type might be useful for articles on future years, but as it currently stands it crosses the hirarchy quite badly (Cat:Future has subcategories for buildings, events, products, vehicles...) so deletion might be a better option. Grutness...wha? 23:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete cat, rename/upmerge template
ISTR this one cropped up at WSS/D a while back. Unused, unproposed, uses the digraph rather than full name for Italy. Currently there aren't enough stubs on Italian swimmers for this to reach threshold, though a renamed named {{Italy-swimming-bio-stub}} might well be useful. So that's delete the category, rename and upmerge the template. Grutness...wha? 23:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge
The proposals in January is imcomplete, the Template should created, but the cat does not. There is only 38 stubs, and not supported by WikiProject. Matthew_hk tc 10:54, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

• This one's an interesting one, as the original proposal was for a blanket category for the Baltic states. If {{Latvia-footy-bio-stub}} and {{Lithuania-footy-bio-stub}} have been created (which they have), that might still be the best solution - it would house stubs for Lithuanian and Estonian players, with the (reasonably sized) Latvian one as a subcategory (the Lithuanian one is currently upmerged into the main European category). Grutness...wha? 23:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Whatever we do, I don't like the regional categories for this type of material. The Baltic states are three very different entities, and I'm not sure we have prevailing reasons to group them as anything but Europeans. Perhaps we should send the Estonians a little heads-up? Surely we must have a few Estonian football buffs around? Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, {{Lithuania-footy-bio-stub}} does feed into its own cat at Cat:Lithuanian football biography stubs Only 43 stubs there, though. Perhaps a delete of that too and upmerge both into European? I'm definitely not in favor of the region-specific cat; it seems unneeded. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 15:52, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete cat, create PRC-company-stub to feed into Chinese company stubs
Speedy Delete Empty, unproposed, category that is without a corresponding template. I don't see any need for this category unless we did have a {{PRC-company-stub}} template and that is regardless of whether or not Cat:Mainland China company stubs survives its SFD discussion of April 3. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

• Qualified delete. Realistically, I am unopposed if discussion meant that having PRC-company-stub was useful. Pragmatically though, my real answer is delete because then the mainland China POV pushers will use it to further their agenda that anything !=HK/MO/TW does equal "mainland" and thus this stub type would be empty, which is stupid. SchmuckyTheCat 00:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment. No. Jinmen and Mazu never belongs to Taiwan, and in modern times not considered Mainland China. They are ROC's. Please make sure you know what you are talking about.
  • Nobody requests to create Template: PRC-company-stub. Per earlier discussions on similar matter, Category: People's Republic of China something stubs are umbrella categories to hold the Mainland and Hong Kong ones where appropriate and necessary. (see my vote below for link) - Privacy 09:43, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per earlier decision on similar matter. (Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/2006/December/4#"Mainland China" categories) This is an umbrella category to hold the Mainland and Hong Kong categories. - Privacy 09:05, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per Privacy. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 19:18, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment ChoChoPK was prompted by Privacy to offer his brief comment. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep per above. Useful and necessary category with a neutral name. Michael G. Davis 20:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Michael G. Davis is a suspected lackey, symphathiser or even sockpuppet of User:Instantnood, of which Privacy is also suspected to be in similar relation with.--Huaiwei 12:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

• Would this be deleted in favor of using {{China-company-stub}} / Cat:Chinese company stubs? ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 16:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Also, I've finally closed the huge discussion from March 2, so this should probably be a keep. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 16:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
    • While {{China-company-stub}} was mentioned there, it was my impression that it was not among those actually up for consideration. (It never did have an sfd template applied to it.) With China having companies before the PRC/ROC split came into being, I can't see getting rid of {{China-company-stub}}, but I wouldn't object to adding {{PRC-company-stub}}. Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Ah, I see. I assumed the list meant that they were all included. So, are you suggested a PRC-company-stub that feeds into Cat:Chinese company stubs? ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 17:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
        • Having such a template is meaningless. Having templates for Hong Kong, Macau and Mainland China is already exhaustive. This category just meant to be an umbrella to hold the three categories. (Macau-company-stub may, tho, have to feed into the umbrella category, given the category would probably be too small.) - Privacy 21:52, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
          • We don't have a {{MainlandChina-company-stub}} so we don't have a template for Mainland China. If we had a {{PRC-company-stub}} it would have enough entries to have a category of its own (this one that is under discussion), so it should. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
      • One, companies before the establishment of the PRC are always tagged according to their locations, like hills and lakes, buildings and structures -- those relocated their whole from where the communists occupied to where remains ROC are the only exceptions. Two, Template:China-company-stub has always been used only to mainland Chinese companies, and Category:China company stubs has always been filled with mainland Chinese companies. - Privacy 21:44, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
        • As you've pointed out, unlike hills, lakes, buildings, and structures, relocation is possible for companies. that is the essential difference. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• Keep as umbrella category for the Mainland and Hong Kong ones. Passer-by (talk) 14:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
• Delete, and re-creation should go through proper procedures as per requirement at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting. While this may appear unnecesary and beuraucratic given the end result is likely to be the same, I feel it will set a negative precedent if we openly condone the behavior of renegades who disregard wikipolicies/guidelines and think they can overide them for no better reason than their self-perceived "truths". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huaiwei (talk • contribs) 16:25, 11 April 2007

Striked discussions entered by sockpuppets of Instantnood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchmuckyTheCat (talk • contribs) 00:12, 12 April 2007

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The result of the debate was rename
A comment from WP:WSS/P:

I suggest renaming this stub category to "veterinary medicine stub," which is broader, as it appears that currently there is no general veterinary stub category, and according to the article on zoological medicine, the field of zoological medicine pertains to zoo animals specifically. 69.140.164.142 07:01, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Seems a reasonable suggestion - {{veterinary-med-stub}} and Cat:Veterinary medicine stubs would make more sense, considering the cope of the zoological medicine and veterinary medicine articles. TYhe current category also has the wrong permcat parent (Cat:Animal anatomy, a subcat of - surprise, surprise - Cat:Veterinary medicine). Grutness...wha? 23:22, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment from stub creator - I initially proposed this stub and after covering enough ground with it and articles needing retagging, went ahead and created it. I initially changed it from {{vet-med-stub}} owing to the issues with the word vet (Medicine vet / Veteran). By all means PLEASE go ahead and change it over. The stub makes more sense and to be totally honest with you, i never thought of using veterinary instead of vet! Go for it. Please, go for it. Thor Malmjursson 01:51, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. I was at Taenidia and saw the notice of this stub type change. I suggest you examine Taenidia carefully before labeling it Veterinary medicine. — Randall Bart ^(talk) 18:25, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment - Zoological medicine lists that discipline as a branch of veterinary medicine. As such, diseases of insects would still be covered by veterinary-med-stub. Grutness...wha? 21:59, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Support - Since zoological medicine only applies to zoo animals, I think renaming this stub type would be appropriate. However, I think Randall's point was that Taenidia is an article about anatomy, not medicine, something that is true for a lot of the zoological medicine stubs. I would suggest that these stubs be made into {{anatomy-stub}}s, and the rest into veterinary medicine stubs. Unfortunately, Wikipedia:WikiProject Medicine/Stub sorting indicates that the anatomy stub category is only for human anatomy (not sure why), so another stub category ({{animal-anatomy-stub}}) would be necessary. --Joelmills 01:59, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment from the stub creator - Animal anatomy stub would be ok, but what we are looking for is a stub which covers specifically diseases of Animals, not just the anatomy of them. And (If my memry serves me correctly) I think there is already an animal anatomy stub... somewhere... :) -- Thor Malmjursson 15:41, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. What I was suggesting is that the stubs about animal disease or medication should be veterinary medicine stubs, and that the stubs about animal anatomy should be animal anatomy stubs (which I don't think exists, checking Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types). We could even have a veterinary-pharma-stub, if necessary, to have those stubs in the proper parent category. I would be more than happy to do the sorting if someone creates the templates and categories. --Joelmills 16:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename
Per the permcat parent, Cat:Roman Catholic dioceses. Alai 05:09, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was delete in favor of EU-org-bio-stub
Unproposed and redundant - exactly duplicates {{Euro-politician-stub}}, and misleadingly uses the term EU when its wording indicates that is is for Europe as a whole. Delete. Grutness...wha? 23:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, didn't realised needed proposing. Created for EU specific politicans rather than generic European or specific national. -JLogan 16:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

• Delete, given that it feeds into the same category as the above, and that there's already a separate {{MEP-stub}} for the actual EU-politicos. Alai 17:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, EU-politician-stub wasn't a bad name, but yes, delete. Valentinian ^{T / C} 18:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

MEP is different from a Commission official, which is who I used it for. Didn't seem right to use a national stub as said person spent most of their time in the Commission with no real presence in national politics. -JLogan 18:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

They still have a nationality, though admittedly they're not national politicians as such. There is a permcat Cat:Political office-holders in the European Union, so a scope along those lines isn't entirely unreasonable, I suppose, if it can be made a bit clearer that's what it's intended for. Alai 19:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

We have {{US-gov-bio-stub}} for the non-elected officials of the United States Government, so a {{EU-gov-bio-stub}} or perhaps simply a {{EU-bio-stub}} would be appropriate if appropriately scoped. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The persons in question should still be tagged with their nationality. Not sure it is a good idea but in order to avoid people from across the pond simply lumping everything from the Old World together under the EU heading, {{EU-gov-bio-stub}} {{EU-org-bio-stub}} would probably be the best name. However, I don't think we have 60 relevant articles for this split. The MEPs should not be included here. Valentinian ^{T / C} 21:41, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Caerwine's suggestion below is even better. Changing support to that one. Valentinian ^{T / C} 16:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Of course, actual Commissioners are still politicians, though I doubt few of those are still stubs. Commission employees are indeed analogous to civil servants, but they're not working for a -gov- in the strict sense... Alai 22:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

If the EU is not a government then neither was the US under the Articles of Confederation nor the HRE after the Peace of Westphalia. The only other alternative I can think of would be {{EU-org-bio-stub}}. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. I'll buy that one. Valentinian ^{T / C} 16:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

That seams to work for me, unless we get to a state of elected Commissioners but that is ages away, cross that bridge when we get to it so to speak. -JLogan 14:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge
{{Syria-hist-stub}} was created - unproposed - along with this category, which currently contains nothing other than four geo-stubs (which should be categorised as such). The unsubcategorised part of Cat:Syria stubs totals only 83 articles - waay too few to begin to think about splitting them up further. Keeping the template and upmerging it into both Cat:Syria stubs and Cat:Middle Eastern history stubs would seem to be the most sensible option. Grutness...wha? 23:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support nominator. Keep stub template, but under Cat:Syria stubs.Must.^{T C} 17:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename
This stub about Thelema (for which the number 93 is apparently significant) just barely meets the 30 stub threshold for a stub with an associated Wikiproject, but the template violates the stub type naming guidelines. Rename to a standard {{Thelema-stub}}. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

• Rename (and remove (ungrammatical) WPJ link, and get rid of the what's-the-point-of-sorting-to-this-when-it's-double-catted-with-its-parent aspect...). Alai 02:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
• Rename and reword per above. Mind you - 29 stubs is mighty thin, even with a WikiProject. Perhaps this one needs watching for possible further action? Grutness...wha? 22:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete
Delete Unproposed empty stub type about a minor U.S. political party too small to even be considered a third party and maybe not a fourth party. Definitely no chance of it having the minimum 60 stubs for a stub type. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:07, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Empty (aside from the template, and... itself), unlinked to, so may be speediable. Alai 02:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

It has been around for two months and is still empty, so a speedy probably won't hurt anybody. Valentinian ^{T / C} 07:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep, rename cat
Unproposed, has about 25 stubs, but at present seems unlikely to meet threshold. At the very least, the category needs a name change, but an upmerge may well be more to the point. Grutness...wha? 00:04, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Resorting Cat:Pies has brought this up to 64 stubs, so I suggest we consider this stub type to be a boy and after renaming the cat to Cat:Pie stubs let it out of the corner and onto the stub list. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

A further difficulty is that this is catted as a subtype of Cat:dessert stubs, which would make more sense if it were permparented with Cat:sweet pies (shouldn't Cat:tarts be a subcat thereof?), and renamed accordingly. Pies in general seems a less useful scope for splitting purposes (in theory all the "dessert pies" would have to be double-stubbed). Suddenly I feel hungry. Alai 02:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

While tarts are usually sweet, in theory they could be savory since whether a pie is a tart has nothing to do with what the filling is. The pie stubs are roughly half sweet pies and half savory pies, so narrowing the scope would make this stub type too small to be useful. As for the stubparents, they parallel the parents of Cat:Pies, though one can (as Alai has) argue that only Cat:Sweet pies should have Cat:Desserts as a parent with Cat:Deserts as a parent for Cat:Overbaked pies. Caerwine Caer’s whines 02:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard quiches described as tarts, as that article does: must be another "divided by the same language" thing. (Come to that, I've come across quite a few "apple tarts" with lids, though that seems likely to be a separate instance of linguistic drift.) OK, rather than over-splitting, over-merging, or getting into undue transpondian punchups, the status quo seems like the best option. Alai 18:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge
This category should be merged with Category:Opera stubs as other genres of opera (there are about 20 of them) do not have individual stub cats. - Kleinzach 00:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

• Nicht zu vermischen! This seems to have been created as, in effect, a category redirect (generally a bad idea for stubs, since people won't be scratching their heads at a lack of an Cat:Operetta stubs, they'd be wondering, if anything, about {{Operetta-stub}} (which is unused, and categoryless, but could certainly be upmerged, just in case). So in short, speedy as empty. Alai 03:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Not speediable Kleinzach restubbed the articles marked with {{operetta-stub}} (example) and removed the stub cat from the template. StubSense being unable to update its en: database is actually useful for once and indicates that there were some 30 articles marked with {{operetta-stub}} at one point, whic is a bit light for a category of its own, but would be enough for an upmerged template if we wanted to split Cat:Opera stubs by genre. At over 600 stubs, the type is a candidate for splitting, though whether by genre would be the best split is debatable. Caerwine Caer’s whines 06:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
    • My bad, I looked a little too hastily at the history of the cat (which has never had a proper cat page, and at one point said "Currently, it is not possible to separate opera and operetta stubs."), and not at all at the history of the template. So amend that to: bad Kleinzach, upmerge template, delete cat slowly. Alai 06:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Cat:Operas by language also looks like a superficially plausible axis to split on. Alai 06:49, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
        • I've often thought that with the performance and literary arts splitting by language rather that country of origin would generally be more useful, and in this case where the permcats are split only by language it would definitely be the only option between the two. The only problem would be for cases such as Die Fledermaus where in addition to the original German libretto, an English translation is performed fairly often (at least here in the States it is). Caerwine Caer’s whines 00:45, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
          • Opera buffs seem fairly hung up on original language as a sort of "genre", even if performed in translation, which is why I mention it here, even beyond the consideration of works-by-language in general. Not that I can hear what anyone's allegedly singing about, regardless of language. Four languages look liable, I'll drop a note at /P. Alai 03:22, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment. I have just discovered this discussion. I am not sure I understand the technicalities but please see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Opera#Wikipedia:WikiProject_Operetta where I explained that i had de-populated this category and proposed its deletion. Originally I thought I was putting up a Cfd and then someone moved it here.

Perhaps I should explain? Operetta is one of a number of genres of opera. The others all have a fairly consistent category structure, but the operetta ones have been anomalous. Many of the articles - a lot of them minimal stubs - have been neglected. The idea behind deleting some of the categories, which incidentally were never used consistently, is to create a logical structure. This is important because we have a large number of articles: our projected coverage is now 1400+ works by 400+ composers, in addition to articles about singers, directors etc.

Regarding the Cat:Operas by language the structure being followed is explained at the Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera. It's complicated but a lot of time and thought has gone into developing it.

Please let me know if I can clarify any other questions - as I explained above I was unaware of this discussion as it was not on my watchlist. Thank you, - Kleinzach 15:34, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was keep, rename cat
Not sure where this came from, but saw it on WP:STUBS today. Only 19 articles. Suggest delete cat and upmerge template into Cat:Sussex geography stubs. ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 20:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

• They're separate counties, though. I assume they were just merged initially to enable them to be split from the UK- somewhat sooner. I'd suggest populating it, and creating a parallel West- same, in the likely-seeming event that the two are both populable (and deleting the parent, in due course). Alai 22:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Oh, but obviously rename cat, if kept. Alai 22:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
    • Cat:Sussex geography stubs has 300 stubs, of which just by looking the name of the alone, there are enough to make a separate stub type for the ceremonial county of East Sussex (which includes Brighton & Hove) and to put the remainder into one for West Sussex. Rename cat, and keep template and do the same for West Sussex. Once the sorting out is done, come back here for an SFD to delete {{Sussex-geo-stub}} / Cat:Sussex geography stubs. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
• I've speedied the rename, such was the obnoxiousness of the current cat name in my sight. Feel free to re-tag Cat:East Sussex geography stubs, anyone that wants rid of the whole thing. Alai 02:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
• This has been proposed twice, with a consensus for "create" each time, along with WestSussex-geo-stub several months ago, and has been waiting on the "To do" list to be created for some time. The category seems to have been incorrectly named, but other than that, it's perfectly acceptable and a definite keeper. Grutness...wha? 06:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy rename
Correct case. Her Pegship (tis herself) 17:11, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• Seems pretty clear-cut, since for one thing it's the caps of the permparent. Sped. Alai 21:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was speedy delete by creator request
Unproposed and misnamed (though not as badly as the redirect at {{Mass spectromery-stub}}, also up for deletion). Even if 80% opf the articles in Cat:Mass spectrometry were a stub it wouldn't reach 60 stubs. Just maybe a more widely-scoped analytical chemistry stub would be useful, but this one doesn't seem to be. Delete - or at the very least rename to match stub naming conventions. Grutness...wha? 01:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the confusion. I'll use {{analytical-chemistry-stub}} or {{physics-stub}} instead. Thanks for pointing this out. --Kkmurray 02:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was rename
As a result of a CFD last month, this stub's parent permanent category (Cat:Mathematical publications) was merged into Cat:Mathematics literature, following the pattern used for other per topic children of Cat:Scientific literature. At a minimum, rename the category to Cat:Mathematics literature stubs and as long as we're doing that, also rename the template to {{math-lit-stub}}. Caerwine Caer’s whines 23:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

It was me that suggested creating the stub type in the first place, and I support renaming it, consistency is good. --Tango 12:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

On a tangential point, I note the use of the US English term "math" rather than the rest-of-the-world English standard "maths" (which, when you think of it, makes sense, since there's no such thing as a mathematic) - any chance of a redirect at maths-lit-stub and similar at any other math-X-stub types that don't have them? Grutness...wha? 00:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

One can be a polymath (indeed it helps if one is trying to help edit an encyclopedia as a whole, as opposed to individual articles), my Webster's New World Unabridged does note "mathematic" as a rare form of the noun and doesn't mention "maths" at all (because it's an old dusty dictionary), and finally according to the Online Etymology Dictionary We Americans coined "math" in the 19th century while Anglophiles didn't start using "maths" until the 20th. That said, I have no objection to using "maths-" in redirects to help out befuddled Commonwealthians. Caerwine Caer’s whines 01:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

One of these days, you should read about old Mr Webster. Not a nice piece of work, and someone who unilaterally and obsessively decided to remove a lot of "Britishisms" from the US - Websters dictionaries still avoid a lot of them. And polymath isn't really the same thing. I'd be surprised if maths isn't a far older term thatn 20th century, too - I have an 1880s dictionary which lists it as an abbreviation for mathematics (unlike "math", which it lists as meaning "to mow"!) But I digress... Grutness...wha? 06:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

A remarkably prescient dictionary; the OED quotes "maths" from 1911 onward, and has an 1891 use of "math" by a school poet, a Scot. Why can't we do what we normally do with Anglo-American divergencies: leave them alone? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 04:01, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd think that "adding a redirect to" is consistent with both "what we normally do" and "leaving [the template itself]" alone. Alai 23:47, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I believe we had this same discussion regarding {{mathematician-stub}}. {{math-bio-stub}} and {{maths-bio-stub}} are both redirects to the correct {{mathematician-stub}}. As such, I would be in favor of {{mathematics-lit-stub}} with redirects at {{math-lit-stub}} and {{maths-lit-stub}} ~ Amalas rawr ^{=^_^=} 15:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

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The result of the debate was upmerge
The stubs is not enough (43), and the cat is not proposed before. the Proposal in January is opposed/no aggrement on creating cat. Matthew_hk tc 19:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

This was brought up in passing at SFD last week when the equivalent category for Estonia was nominated. 43 stubs is borderline - upmerge would be reasonable - by comparison, Estonia had 38. Grutness...wha? 00:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

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The